Chapter #39


The Urim and Thummim Stones - Lest Thou Be Found Wanting!

And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel:

Six of their names on one stone, and the other six names of the rest on the other stone, according to their birth.

With the work of an engraver in stone, like the engravings of a signet, shalt thou engrave the two stones with the names of the children of Israel: thou shalt make them to be set in ouches of gold.                                                                                                       Exodus 28: 9 - 11.

And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.

                                                                                                            Exodus 28:30

{Quote From Wesley}

Their government was a theocracy; God was their king, the high priest was, under God, their ruler, this Urim and Thummim were His cabinet council: probably Moses wrote upon the breast - plate, or wove into it, these words, Urim and Thummim, to signify, that the high - priest, having on him this breast - plate, and asking council of God in any emergency, should be directed to those measures, which God would own. {End Charles Quote, italics mine}

Urim Stone: “LIGHTS”. A flame as being denoted THE LIGHT OF GOD from THE EAST, for restoration of all creation will arise FROM THE EAST and move forward UNTO THE WEST until ALL CREATION IS CREATED BRAND NEW.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”                  Matthew 24:27

Thummim Stone: “PERFECTIONS”. An epithet of the High Priests Royal Ephod that represented COMPLETE TRUTH. In relation to HIM THAT OVERCOMES this Stone represents one going forth on a VENTURE. They come forth at the end of that VENTURE in complete innocence and in a state of utter completeness in God. They also have the prosperity of the Kingdom of God as their fullness and eternal portion.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

                                                                                                   Matthew 5:48

“But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

                                                                                                   1 Peter 5:10


We have now come to the Stones of Witness, the Urim and Thummim upon the shoulders of the Royal Ephod. This is a divine picture of perfect balance in the life of that person who would overcome all things and come into a Holy and Perfect place in God. They who would be found with no impurity must first partake of “hearing” the voice of God and “knowing” His perfect will in their lives. This act of hearing and this act of walking out what is known is quite often a mystery to others who watch the forward progress of the Overcomer and are convicted by it. Truly, the gift God gives of hearing His voice and knowing His Will is something to be envied in those who would also hear and do the will of God in their lives. In this hour, just prior to the appearing of Christ in His Overcomers, a definitive line is being drawn which is separating the Overcomer from anything else or anyone else in this present world who is not in this peculiar processing. The separations from mankind are becoming more prominent than ever before.

It is my desire to bring the truth about the topology of the Urim and Thummim Stones right down into our present day walk by the Spirit of the Lord in us. For the Lord still does speak by “lights” and “perfections” which come to us as line upon line and precept upon precept. The reality of this walk in the Lord is as a prelude to Ruling and Reigning with Christ upon His Throne because this witness of the Spirit in us is a prelude to the Government of God in the Earth.

In you, that is in your spirit, is the awareness of the presence of the Lord. And when you are in a situation or in a place of needing to know His perfect will, the Lord will arise in you in agreement with your inquiry, or the Lord will “lay back” in you in a state of silence with no witness in denial of your inquiry. For if you should ask the Lord a question as to His will, He will answer by the Urim and Thummim in you. When you are in a place of needing to know His will, ask yourself “Is this according to the Urim and Thummim in me?” Does your Urim and Thummim {the witness of the Spirit in you} “arise”? Or does it “fall”? Lord?!?! I need to know your will in this matter?!?! Does His Spirit arise in you or fall in you when you ask this of Him? Your needed direction, your inquiry according to doctrine, a situation in your home and family, with those of your relations that you pray for and are hoping for. Does the Urim and Thummim rise or fall?

In ancient Israel when the High Priest was not before the Ark of the Covenant to meet with God above the Mercy Seat, any inquiry was done according to the Urim and Thummim Stones upon the Ephod. The High Priest would take the Stones, one in each hand, and would inquire of the Lord while holding them. If the Lord affirmed the inquiry, the Stones would brighten and shine forth. If the answer was no, the Stones would stagnate, not glow, not show forth luster or brightness but would remain dim. This is the picture of the Holy Spirit rising or falling in you. For you have the Spirit of the Lord.

It is very important to know that in this day, there are only a very few that know of the rising or falling of the Spirit of the Lord in them. For the majority of Christendom has borne witness to the Spirit in them and have pampered their doctrines with that same witness. But it was an unproven witness. It was a witness that led them to a light that was not the true light and a witness that was not a true witness. The result was a perfection that was not perfection but just another form of deception from real pure truth. The scriptures then become interpreted according to this false witness and as a result the Word of God is wrestled down to destruction in them. At the same time such as these who bear this false witness - thinking it is pure truth - are being more and more deceived in a denominational setting. They grow their numbers, the frenzied pace of their doctrine is maintained and because “everyone is believing this” they think it must be true. However, in truth, there is only a very small portion of Christianity that truly does know the true abiding witness of the Spirit of God in them. The rest do not.

The end result of this false interpretation of the Spirit of the Lord speaking in them is that the earth has now been enveloped in gross darkness. There is very little pure word spoken, very little pure truth known. But there are ample amounts of programs, efforts, emulations of pulpit preachers, schemes, ambitions, conferences of every kind, books without number, doctrines of devils, false doctrines on eternal torment and the notion of an angry God. In all of this the true voice of the Lord is not being heard.

The fruit of this is a world lacking proper divine directives. A world at war. A world with a demented view of the true God and as a result there are religions of every taint and stain and man warring against man has never ceased, and the terrorism of this hour continues, most of it done in the name of God.

The Overcomers are generally the only group who are “hearing” and “seeing” the witness of the Spirit of God in them in truth. This hearing and seeing causes them to be SEPARATE from everyone else for it is a HOLY Word they possess, for God is the voice of inspiration that is in them. The “lights” and “perfections” that the Overcomers are hearing in this hour are causing them tribulation in the earth, but they are being kept safe by the shadow of God over them as He speaks His will into their lives. They hold the spark of light in this dark hour and it is in them that Christ is about to appear and the Overcomers are the ones He is about to Glorify.

So then, to concentrate on the Stones is necessary to knowing the title of this writing, and that is that we not be found “wanting”, lacking anything of His Grace and Mercy that would deliver us unto a completed state in Glory. For the Overcomers have known one thing in truth. And that thing is the very word of God that exalts The Lord Jesus Christ alone in our midst and that gives us the “reason” for the hope that is set before us. We are one with the Lord in His desire to see creation set free from the curse of the fall, however God requires that those in whom He is going to arise will know the TOTALITY of ALL His light(s) and ALL His perfection(s). A completeness must be part of our nature so that the Witness of God in us cannot be argued against when God rolls back the curtain on this company whom He calls The Army Of The Lord. These bear the Urim and Thummim Stones IN BALANCE and they do not ever inquire anything of the Lord without first having in place BOTH STONES TOGETHER.

The main reason we have such a bad imbalance in Christendom today is that they would refer to either “light” or “perfection” apart from one another. This has led them to doctrines of devils and realms of revelation that are unsound and that lead to doctrines that are not truth but are gross in error. The result is increased darkness. And I have an example of this. For if only one of the realms of witness be consulted, the result will be the inception and growth OF A NEW AGE SPIRIT OF DECEPTION.

Look at the life of Saul who persecuted David in the Old Testament. There is one portion of scripture which shows me this imbalance. Christendom is having a similar problem today as did Saul during this time as he desperately tried to hold on to His anointing and kingdom. Just as denominations are doing now, desperately holding on to what they think is “truth”. This goes to show you that the Lord is not slack concerning the value of His government and His cabinet counsel, even the Urim and Thummim Stones working together in the lives of they who will in the future form the Government of God.

“And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.

And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.

And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.”                       1 Samuel 28:4-7

Note the very first problem Saul had. He inquired ONLY OF THE URIM. He did not balance his inquiry with the THUMMIM. So it is today. The gamut of Christianity goes by “lights” {the definition of the Urim}, those things they bear witness to, even if it is in carnal religiosity. But does this light lead to “perfection”? Does the Lord GROW IN ME? Does the Lord display more of His love, His mercy, His Glory THROUGH MY LIFE? Does my life DRAW OTHERS TO COME TO GOD’S GREAT LOVE? Does my walk exemplify the Life of Jesus in me? Is it truly God’s LIGHT that I am illuminated by? If I were to go by “lights” alone, I would not need to expect “perfections” {the definition of the Thummim}. If I went by “perfections” alone, I would think that the light is burning it’s brightest in me and that I am already an example of total Holiness. Who thinks that the light burns brightest in them and are an example of Holiness? Those caught up in the infamy of the Lucifer spirit. This Adamic mentality thinks they are the beauty of perfection, the totality of holiness, that nothing more need be added to him except the adulation and praises of their pet doctrines. The end result of Saul’s inquiry was silence from the Lord and the consultation of a witch.

I noted that “Endor” means “The fountain of Dor”. On the eve of Saul’s last confrontation with the Philistines Saul adds iniquity to iniquity and sin to sin. He then crosses the line and enters into spiritualism. For “Dor” denotes “of the age” or the time frame he thought he lived in. That he was in a time when he thought the Spirit of the Lord would direct him to that which was “convenient” for him to do, even though it was based in fear of the Philistines. In other words, Saul moved in what to him was “the easiest route”. No personal denial of his own life, no taking up his cross to follow Jesus, no act of contrition in humility or repentance. Go with the flow! Move with the crowd! Do that which makes the most natural sense! Not unlike escapism doctrines of the rapture and leaving the world to the devil, doctrines that are very disdained in the heart of the Overcomer. So Saul goes to Endor, a village of 7 huts {historically accurate} to inquire for understanding by Samuel {spiritualism} through the ministry of witchcraft. It is very noteworthy that Endor had 7 huts according to history, but we understand this in the mystery. Contrast the Lord that has 7 Spirits! How contrary to truth is the witch at Endor, and even more so how contrary that the king of Israel would consult such! The mystery of Iniquity in Saul was growing in leaps and bounds as he abandoned the pattern of consulting the Lord using BOTH THE URIM AND THE THUMMIM TOGETHER. For that is the purpose of this writing, to first show you that we need to hear the Lord IN BALANCE of LIGHT which leads to PERFECTION.

So it is now for the Overcomer that this lesson is learned. For to consult the Spirit of the Lord and to know His will in you, one must first BEAR THEIR PERSONAL CROSS. One must DENY THEMSELVES DAILY. One must not seek THEIR OWN WAY. The inquiry we seek to ask the Lord must be done from a heart that lives in total abandonment to God, but which would never presume anything from God outside of first seeking and knowing that God’s will MUST be done by their act of personal denial. For if we do not inquire according to both light and perfection, we will end up with the same NEW AGE MENTALITY that Saul had and that he died in. Jesus said: “ I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” John 5:30. This is the perfect example of one who knew that abandonment WITH WISDOM is the only course to knowing and doing the perfect will of God.

To walk in just light, or just perfection will leave you wanting. You will not know the true voice of the Lord, nor His will, nor be able to show forth God from within you in a measure that is perfect.

So then when we view the two Stones of Witness upon The Royal Ephod, we come into a balance in our walk that circumvents worldly elements, elements of emotion {soul} and Spiritual elements of unity with the Lord. God has not ever forsaken this pattern. Not in the Old Testament, and certainly not in the New Testament. It is this pattern of knowing the voice and the Will of God that sets the Overcomers upon the hill of Mt. Zion to follow the Lamb withersoever He goes. It is the knowledge of His Will in perfection that marks our foreheads with the very mind of God and the very nature of our Heavenly Father. It is this knowledge of light and perfection in us that erases from us any bestial mark and separates us from any love for the world or the things of the world. The Overcomer enters a realm of persecution because of the erasing of the bestial mark 666 as mankind finds it hard to fathom this depth of the Lord in you. For this voice of light and perfection causes one to be so separate from all other things. This knowledge of the voice of the Lord in your Spirit is the Tree of Life in the midst of the paradise of God. It is IN YOU that this tree is growing and it is that tree that we learn to eat of when we walk according to light and perfection in us. Of a truth I can say, that when you learn the entire witness of the Urim and Thummim in your Spirit, you will become part of the very Government of God, even the 144,000 that are perfect and entire and lack nothing. Not a literal number, but a figurative number. A representation of the Government of God that rules from a Throne of Love and Mercy which restores and reconciles and which never drives anyone away. For the voice of the Lord in the Urim and the Thummim, the light and perfection He brings to your Spirit, that very voice and that very light is the FULLNESS OF RESTORATION THROUGH YOU. IT IS THE VERY PURPOSE OF GOD FULFILLED.

Dear Overcomer. Listen intently to my words. Brand them upon your heart. Think not that you “know” all of these things for these things are present truths, new, but ancient, fresh, but based in He who is The Ancient of Days. MOVE NOT DEAR OVERCOMER IN ANY DIRECTION OR MOTION OF HAND OR FOOT UNTIL YOU KNOW THE WITNESS OF THE LORD AS IS EXEMPLIFIED BY THE URIM AND THUMMIM IN YOU. You will know this by the “witness” of God arising or falling within you. And this is what you would know:

            1} That the rising of God or the falling of God in you will always exalt and give Glory to Christ and to the sufferings He endured and the Glory of His resurrection. He alone would be exalted in EITHER CASE. Whether the Spirit of the Lord says YES or NO by the rising of falling of the Spirit of God in you, Jesus alone will be Glorified in it.

            2} That the rising of God or the falling of God in you will always bring you to a greater awareness of His presence and of His purpose in preparing you personally for His work in the earth at the manifestation of the Sons and Daughters of God. This witness of the Urim and Thummim in you will bring you closer each time to becoming part of that company of Overcomers who will inherit all things and who will rule and reign with Christ over all the Nations of the earth, breaking them to shivers with a rod of Iron as a Potter breaks up a vessel of clay.

            3} That the rising of God or the falling of God in you will in time remove from you any questions or inquiries as to knowing the will of God in any situation because you will be filled with ALL the Knowledge of His will in EVERY circumstance. This filling up of the knowledge of His will shall cause those around you to become envious and persecution will arise against you. However, this will not effect your walk because the key ingredient for knowing the knowledge of His will in every area was based in HUMILITY, even the HUMILITY OF CHRIST. Your forward walk will at this point become by the Spirit of the Lord and you shall walk forward in the might and power of His spirit in miracles, signs and wonders. Just as Jesus did.

For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:”                                                  Colossians 1: 9-13. 

            4} That the rising of God or the falling of God in you will bring forth in your heart the ANSWER TO YOUR HOPE. That the HOPE you have of ETERNAL LIFE will never diminish as you listen to the Witness Stones in your Spirit, that portion of the Life of God in you which cannot be mistaken for any other voice. YOUR HOPE IS THAT GOD WILL FINISH IN YOU HIS PERFECT WORK. As well, this hope is FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD TO COME IN POWER AND IN GREAT GLORY. For Christ will come again, and will bring the Kingdom of God with Him TO this earth as a perfect 4 square New Jerusalem, perfect in order, liberty and interdependence, one with another in a perfection that forgets all of the former toil and tears of the curse of the fall and of the Old Nature that partook of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.


The key element to this writing was that you would hold these in balance, BOTH STONES, and not be found wanting. That you would learn the rising and falling of His Holy Spirit in you in bearing witness, or not, to your inquiries. This is a true mark of Sonship and of overcoming.

To be continued............... Kenneth B Visscher